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Q: How physically demanding was this role?
A: Extremely. It was easily the most physically demanding role I’ve done. I began training a year before we started filming and had to continue the training all the way through filming too, so after doing fifteen, sixteen hour days. I was training before and after work. It was very extreme.
Q: Had you done ballet before?
A: I did ballet until I was 13 so I had a base. I started training for Black Swan when I was 28, so I’d had fifteen years of not doing anything and getting older. At 28 you are at the height of a ballet career – it’s not an age when you start out.
Q: Why did you stop at 13?
A: That’s when I really started acting more seriously, and I’m very all or nothing. When I stopped dancing I was doing two, three hours a day and I obviously couldn’t keep up that pace. Also, it was hard for me to go to a class and not be with the serious girls.
Q: Have you continued to dance since the filming finished?
A: No. It was really extreme and as soon as the film was over I had to give myself a break.
Q: To recover from the injuries?
A: Not from the injuries but from the intensity of it.
Q: Did you ever have second thoughts about taking the role because it was so physical and mentally challenging?
A: No. Everything that scared me about it was also what drew me to it. It was an amazing opportunity to challenge myself, both emotionally and physically, and work with all of these amazing people - Darren, who is incredible, and Vincent and Mila.
Q: Is it different working with Darren than other directors?
A: He’s incredible. I don’t know if he’s like this with everyone but I’ve never before had and experience with a director where there was this sort of telepathy. I just felt that we were in the same zone - we are both very extreme, we are both very focused and very disciplined so we were just sort of in the zone where he could say half a word to me and I would understand what he meant. It was always like playing and we would get excited when we would discover new things together. He’s very focused, very present, and always on. It can be five in the morning and he will not lose his intensity. He is also very kind and I trust his judgement, so I was willing to do anything for the role.
Q: What about research – how did you find out about the world of ballet?
A: I learned most of it during my training. My teacher, Mary Ann Bowers, was in the New York City Ballet for 10 years, so getting to spend several hours a day with her for a year, I got to hear so many stories. And then closer to the filming, I was able to spend time with other dancers as well, and hear their stories. I also read many biographies and autobiographies of ballerinas and that really helped immerse me in the world of ballet.
Q: Are there similarities with the life of an actress and the life of a ballerina?
A: There are definitely similarities but there are also marked differences. I think the dedication and the technique that is required of a ballerina is not required of an actress at all. It’s an art where virtuosity is characterised by hard work and extreme technique.
Q: Do ballerinas need acting skills?
A: Yes, there is definitely acting. But the acting is physical. It’s not just acting on an emotional level, you also have to have the technique - your turnout, the pointe of your foot and the angle of your leg is all important. Also, the expiration date is a little bit earlier for ballerinas, and is clearer - it comes with your physical expiration. At a certain point your body breaks and can’t do that anymore, whereas for actors your working life is longer.
Q: That’s a theme that’s explored in the film when Beth (Winona Ryder) is discarded as the company’s leading ballerina in favour of your character. Can you identify with that kind of fear of rejection as an actress?
A: Absolutely. I think that sort of paradigm in which women expire and are discarded and replaced with a younger, newer model is something that’s evident in the acting world. It’s evident in just the way our society treats women in general. But there are also ways to step out of that and I think that part of Nina’s transformation is moving away from being part of that system and into a world where she gets to define herself and she isn’t defined by men’s rules.
Q: Was there ever a point where you thought, 'I’m not going to be able to do this tomorrow because I’m so exhausted?'
A: Yes, there were a few days I thought I was going to die (laughs).
Q: How did you keep going?
A: There wasn’t much time to think. It was almost like one of those survival situations where you don’t even think about it, you just keep moving forward. We were on a very low budget so we were shooting so fast and so much. We would do so many scenes every day and they were very long days. We would start on Monday at six in the morning, but every day it would get longer and longer, so we’d have to start later the next day, so by Friday, we’d be starting at 8pm and we would go through the night. And when it’s 4am on a Saturday morning and you are on pointe shoes well, I was just trying to make sure that I didn’t break my leg. Before every scene I would have to warm up. It was crazy, but you have to do it. So I’d have to do a whole routine on the barre every time before I shot a scene to make sure that I wasn’t going to tear ligaments. And at 4am that’s kind of tough.
Q: If you had a daughter and she said I want to become a prima ballerina, would you let her?
A: Probably not (laughs). Obviously I would encourage my child’s dreams and there’s something extremely beautiful about dancers. It’s an art where there are no superficial rewards - you don’t get fame, in this certain circle you do, but you don’t really get fame and you don’t get money. They do it for the love of dance. But it can be a very cruel world.
Q: Your character has a pure love of dance. Do you have a pure love of cinema?
A: I do. I love the work and I feel so lucky that this is my job, and it’s also lucky that there are superficial rewards to it (laughs). To get to do something that you love and get paid to do it is pretty lucky.
Q: There’s already talk that you could win awards for this role…
A: Thank you for saying that. The thing that’s nice is when the work is rewarding itself. It’s flattering to hear talk of awards but that’s not my goal. I had such a fulfilling experience and if that’s what I go home with, I’m happy.
Q: What was it like the first time you watched the finished film? Did it bring back that mixture of pleasure and pain?
A: It was very, very difficult (laughs).
Q: Because you could remember what it was like on the day?
A: Yes, and also it’s just very hard for me to watch myself just in general. I will not be doing that again (laughs).
Q: The film is very frightening at times because it’s about your character’s breakdown and the audience doesn’t know what’s real and what isn’t. Are you easily frightened?
A: I’m afraid of a lot and I’m not a danger seeker. I like extreme experiences but not ones that I feel would threaten my life. I like scuba diving but I wouldn’t free dive (laughs). I’m afraid of everything! Work wise I try to do things that scare me because I know they are going to challenge me. But I didn’t really know what I was in for with this. I didn’t realise what it was going to be like but it was amazing. And it’s a total cliché but it’s true, the more you put in the more you get out of it. So it was an amazing experience.
Q: Is that the criteria when you choose a role, something that will push you?
A: I like trying everything. My main criteria is to do things that I haven’t done before and also things that I can relate to. Something that I might feel in my own life that I can explore in a role.
Q: What was the most physically difficult aspect of the ballet?
A: Arms were really difficult. I had some challenges with that, but there were challenges all over (laughs)!
Q: Your character becomes more and more isolated and paranoid in the story. How did Darren approach that?
A: Darren definitely isolated me from the rest of the cast and also the lifestyle was such that I didn’t do anything except work for the year that I was prepping for the film, so I didn’t have any life, so that part was not hard to get to.
Q: Presumably a strict diet was a big part of your regime too?
A: Yes, it was an extreme diet.
Q: The reality in the film is never quite established. How did you approach that?
A: It was nice because the way that Darren would do it was to ask me questions, and I didn’t have to tell him the answer, but I had to decide for myself what was important. He would make me make the decisions. He would say ‘is she a virgin? Is this really happening?’ Because there are obviously so many times in the film where you can’t tell and it’s ambiguous about whether it’s real or in her imagination because that allows you to feel, to experience her insanity. So yeah, it was very helpful because he didn’t always make me reveal it to him, and we could even have difference of opinion, but he made me decide for myself.
Q: You did pole dancing in Closer, and now ballet for Black Swan. Would you dance on film again?
A: Absolutely. I love dancing. But I’m definitely hanging up the ballet shoes, I think I’ve done enough ballet for my lifetime. I’m too old now anyway to continue but I would love to do other kinds of dance.
Q: So when you wrapped on Black Swan did you book yourself into a really nice hotel, order room service and then hit the beach?
A: Unfortunately not (laughs). Actually it was nice, the day after I wrapped one of my very good friends got married, so that was the first thing I did, which was very beautiful. So I got to see friends, then I was really just home and trying to regain my life, see my friends, sleep, eat, the things I hadn’t been doing for year, (laughs)
Q: Nina is looking for perfection. Are you?
A: I think most art is in search of those perfect moments, that beauty that exists for a fraction of a second, and you can’t grasp it. As soon as you have it in your sight, it’s gone already. I want to do the best job that I can and I’m definitely demanding of myself, but I think perfection in acting is very different. Really, it’s imperfection that you are looking for because you are portraying people who are by nature imperfect.
Q: You have a degree in psychology. Does help you when you are building a character like Nina?
A: Absolutely, First of all, I think that university taught me how hard I could work, because the first time you get your reading list for the week, it’s like a thousand pages to read in four days. Your stomach drops, and then, you see that you can do that amount of work and take what you can take from it and create your own thing from these other materials. That’s really helpful when you are doing something like this. And to have all these sources and work hard and throw yourself into it that much, it gave me the confidence that I could really pull it off. The psychology stuff does help with a role like this - her obsessive nature, her narcissism, and also seeing the sort of religious psychology of ballet. All the city ballet dancers sort of deified (George) Balanchine, he was like a God to them. And there are so many rituals - the way they prepare their shoes for instance. For every performance they prepare a new pair of shoes and it’s the same ritual – an hour of scraping and breaking the shoes apart and laying them exactly the right way. And there’s a lot of suffering in ballet – they really are in a lot of pain. So that sort of religious psychology of the art was really interesting to me.
Q: How do you think America will take to the sexuality in the film? Are you nervous about having to explain it or discuss it there?
A: It’s definitely a part of the psychology of the character. She’s freeing herself from this world where she cares so much about pleasing everyone, and has to learn how to pleasure herself, so that’s how she’s going to find her artistry. Instead of seeing herself through other people’s eyes, she’s creating her own vision of the world through this pleasure. it definitely plays an important role in her development. But of course, there’s the salacious side to it, so I can pretty much expect what will happen.
Q: If Nina were your patient, what is the diagnosis?
A: There’s definitely an obsessive, compulsive disorder, anorexia bulimia, narcissistic personality disorder, she’s probably bi-polar, (laughs)…
Q: How do you fix that?
A: Years and years of therapy (laughs)
A: Extremely. It was easily the most physically demanding role I’ve done. I began training a year before we started filming and had to continue the training all the way through filming too, so after doing fifteen, sixteen hour days. I was training before and after work. It was very extreme.
Q: Had you done ballet before?
A: I did ballet until I was 13 so I had a base. I started training for Black Swan when I was 28, so I’d had fifteen years of not doing anything and getting older. At 28 you are at the height of a ballet career – it’s not an age when you start out.
Q: Why did you stop at 13?
A: That’s when I really started acting more seriously, and I’m very all or nothing. When I stopped dancing I was doing two, three hours a day and I obviously couldn’t keep up that pace. Also, it was hard for me to go to a class and not be with the serious girls.
Q: Have you continued to dance since the filming finished?
A: No. It was really extreme and as soon as the film was over I had to give myself a break.
Q: To recover from the injuries?
A: Not from the injuries but from the intensity of it.
Q: Did you ever have second thoughts about taking the role because it was so physical and mentally challenging?
A: No. Everything that scared me about it was also what drew me to it. It was an amazing opportunity to challenge myself, both emotionally and physically, and work with all of these amazing people - Darren, who is incredible, and Vincent and Mila.
Q: Is it different working with Darren than other directors?
A: He’s incredible. I don’t know if he’s like this with everyone but I’ve never before had and experience with a director where there was this sort of telepathy. I just felt that we were in the same zone - we are both very extreme, we are both very focused and very disciplined so we were just sort of in the zone where he could say half a word to me and I would understand what he meant. It was always like playing and we would get excited when we would discover new things together. He’s very focused, very present, and always on. It can be five in the morning and he will not lose his intensity. He is also very kind and I trust his judgement, so I was willing to do anything for the role.
Q: What about research – how did you find out about the world of ballet?
A: I learned most of it during my training. My teacher, Mary Ann Bowers, was in the New York City Ballet for 10 years, so getting to spend several hours a day with her for a year, I got to hear so many stories. And then closer to the filming, I was able to spend time with other dancers as well, and hear their stories. I also read many biographies and autobiographies of ballerinas and that really helped immerse me in the world of ballet.
Q: Are there similarities with the life of an actress and the life of a ballerina?
A: There are definitely similarities but there are also marked differences. I think the dedication and the technique that is required of a ballerina is not required of an actress at all. It’s an art where virtuosity is characterised by hard work and extreme technique.
Q: Do ballerinas need acting skills?
A: Yes, there is definitely acting. But the acting is physical. It’s not just acting on an emotional level, you also have to have the technique - your turnout, the pointe of your foot and the angle of your leg is all important. Also, the expiration date is a little bit earlier for ballerinas, and is clearer - it comes with your physical expiration. At a certain point your body breaks and can’t do that anymore, whereas for actors your working life is longer.
Q: That’s a theme that’s explored in the film when Beth (Winona Ryder) is discarded as the company’s leading ballerina in favour of your character. Can you identify with that kind of fear of rejection as an actress?
A: Absolutely. I think that sort of paradigm in which women expire and are discarded and replaced with a younger, newer model is something that’s evident in the acting world. It’s evident in just the way our society treats women in general. But there are also ways to step out of that and I think that part of Nina’s transformation is moving away from being part of that system and into a world where she gets to define herself and she isn’t defined by men’s rules.
Q: Was there ever a point where you thought, 'I’m not going to be able to do this tomorrow because I’m so exhausted?'
A: Yes, there were a few days I thought I was going to die (laughs).
Q: How did you keep going?
A: There wasn’t much time to think. It was almost like one of those survival situations where you don’t even think about it, you just keep moving forward. We were on a very low budget so we were shooting so fast and so much. We would do so many scenes every day and they were very long days. We would start on Monday at six in the morning, but every day it would get longer and longer, so we’d have to start later the next day, so by Friday, we’d be starting at 8pm and we would go through the night. And when it’s 4am on a Saturday morning and you are on pointe shoes well, I was just trying to make sure that I didn’t break my leg. Before every scene I would have to warm up. It was crazy, but you have to do it. So I’d have to do a whole routine on the barre every time before I shot a scene to make sure that I wasn’t going to tear ligaments. And at 4am that’s kind of tough.
Q: If you had a daughter and she said I want to become a prima ballerina, would you let her?
A: Probably not (laughs). Obviously I would encourage my child’s dreams and there’s something extremely beautiful about dancers. It’s an art where there are no superficial rewards - you don’t get fame, in this certain circle you do, but you don’t really get fame and you don’t get money. They do it for the love of dance. But it can be a very cruel world.
Q: Your character has a pure love of dance. Do you have a pure love of cinema?
A: I do. I love the work and I feel so lucky that this is my job, and it’s also lucky that there are superficial rewards to it (laughs). To get to do something that you love and get paid to do it is pretty lucky.
Q: There’s already talk that you could win awards for this role…
A: Thank you for saying that. The thing that’s nice is when the work is rewarding itself. It’s flattering to hear talk of awards but that’s not my goal. I had such a fulfilling experience and if that’s what I go home with, I’m happy.
Q: What was it like the first time you watched the finished film? Did it bring back that mixture of pleasure and pain?
A: It was very, very difficult (laughs).
Q: Because you could remember what it was like on the day?
A: Yes, and also it’s just very hard for me to watch myself just in general. I will not be doing that again (laughs).
Q: The film is very frightening at times because it’s about your character’s breakdown and the audience doesn’t know what’s real and what isn’t. Are you easily frightened?
A: I’m afraid of a lot and I’m not a danger seeker. I like extreme experiences but not ones that I feel would threaten my life. I like scuba diving but I wouldn’t free dive (laughs). I’m afraid of everything! Work wise I try to do things that scare me because I know they are going to challenge me. But I didn’t really know what I was in for with this. I didn’t realise what it was going to be like but it was amazing. And it’s a total cliché but it’s true, the more you put in the more you get out of it. So it was an amazing experience.
Q: Is that the criteria when you choose a role, something that will push you?
A: I like trying everything. My main criteria is to do things that I haven’t done before and also things that I can relate to. Something that I might feel in my own life that I can explore in a role.
Q: What was the most physically difficult aspect of the ballet?
A: Arms were really difficult. I had some challenges with that, but there were challenges all over (laughs)!
Q: Your character becomes more and more isolated and paranoid in the story. How did Darren approach that?
A: Darren definitely isolated me from the rest of the cast and also the lifestyle was such that I didn’t do anything except work for the year that I was prepping for the film, so I didn’t have any life, so that part was not hard to get to.
Q: Presumably a strict diet was a big part of your regime too?
A: Yes, it was an extreme diet.
Q: The reality in the film is never quite established. How did you approach that?
A: It was nice because the way that Darren would do it was to ask me questions, and I didn’t have to tell him the answer, but I had to decide for myself what was important. He would make me make the decisions. He would say ‘is she a virgin? Is this really happening?’ Because there are obviously so many times in the film where you can’t tell and it’s ambiguous about whether it’s real or in her imagination because that allows you to feel, to experience her insanity. So yeah, it was very helpful because he didn’t always make me reveal it to him, and we could even have difference of opinion, but he made me decide for myself.
Q: You did pole dancing in Closer, and now ballet for Black Swan. Would you dance on film again?
A: Absolutely. I love dancing. But I’m definitely hanging up the ballet shoes, I think I’ve done enough ballet for my lifetime. I’m too old now anyway to continue but I would love to do other kinds of dance.
Q: So when you wrapped on Black Swan did you book yourself into a really nice hotel, order room service and then hit the beach?
A: Unfortunately not (laughs). Actually it was nice, the day after I wrapped one of my very good friends got married, so that was the first thing I did, which was very beautiful. So I got to see friends, then I was really just home and trying to regain my life, see my friends, sleep, eat, the things I hadn’t been doing for year, (laughs)
Q: Nina is looking for perfection. Are you?
A: I think most art is in search of those perfect moments, that beauty that exists for a fraction of a second, and you can’t grasp it. As soon as you have it in your sight, it’s gone already. I want to do the best job that I can and I’m definitely demanding of myself, but I think perfection in acting is very different. Really, it’s imperfection that you are looking for because you are portraying people who are by nature imperfect.
Q: You have a degree in psychology. Does help you when you are building a character like Nina?
A: Absolutely, First of all, I think that university taught me how hard I could work, because the first time you get your reading list for the week, it’s like a thousand pages to read in four days. Your stomach drops, and then, you see that you can do that amount of work and take what you can take from it and create your own thing from these other materials. That’s really helpful when you are doing something like this. And to have all these sources and work hard and throw yourself into it that much, it gave me the confidence that I could really pull it off. The psychology stuff does help with a role like this - her obsessive nature, her narcissism, and also seeing the sort of religious psychology of ballet. All the city ballet dancers sort of deified (George) Balanchine, he was like a God to them. And there are so many rituals - the way they prepare their shoes for instance. For every performance they prepare a new pair of shoes and it’s the same ritual – an hour of scraping and breaking the shoes apart and laying them exactly the right way. And there’s a lot of suffering in ballet – they really are in a lot of pain. So that sort of religious psychology of the art was really interesting to me.
Q: How do you think America will take to the sexuality in the film? Are you nervous about having to explain it or discuss it there?
A: It’s definitely a part of the psychology of the character. She’s freeing herself from this world where she cares so much about pleasing everyone, and has to learn how to pleasure herself, so that’s how she’s going to find her artistry. Instead of seeing herself through other people’s eyes, she’s creating her own vision of the world through this pleasure. it definitely plays an important role in her development. But of course, there’s the salacious side to it, so I can pretty much expect what will happen.
Q: If Nina were your patient, what is the diagnosis?
A: There’s definitely an obsessive, compulsive disorder, anorexia bulimia, narcissistic personality disorder, she’s probably bi-polar, (laughs)…
Q: How do you fix that?
A: Years and years of therapy (laughs)
