Where can I voice my objection to this, seeing how the BCCSA doesn't seem to care?
What I find so hypocritical from ETV is that in the morning they'll show Angus Buchan and preach Christianity, and in the evening they'll show this. (is Angus protesting I wonder?)
Mock the "mother grundies" among us. I lived in Holland, where nobody protests about such things - they have 4 24/7 hardcore channels on, so kids get to see in the day what people in SA have to go to shady stores to obtain. It's because of grumpy old Christians that SA still has a shred of morality left.
You may now "dislike" below :-)
NuttyZA - 2011-05-11 10:17
lol... I promise I wont click the "thumbs down"
What on Earth makes you think SA has any morality?
During apartheid, when such things were banned, South Africa had the Highest divorce rate in the world. There are still has more teenage pregnancies in SA than in Holland.. Figures for Holland are 5 births for every 1000 Teens, South Africa has 120 Births for every 1000 Teens, that is 240 times higher than Holland (teen defined as girls aged between 14 and 19)... going by your reasoning then, it indicates that having 4 24/7 porn channels actually REDUCES the number of teenage prgnancies by 240 times!!!!
NuttyZA - 2011-05-11 10:22
oh, just one more point... ETV are not being Hypocritical by broadcasting both... they are in business to make money, so they broadcast what they think people will want to watch during those time slots... perhaps all us atheists should start boycotting ETV until it removes those disgusting religious progams???
NuttyZA - 2011-05-11 10:30
and yeah, sorry, I realise my maths sucks... that should be 24 times not 240
Mulciber - 2011-05-11 10:52
NuttyZA, have you ever been to Holland. My parents live there presently. The country is in advanced stages of moral decay and atheists are thriving there. Drugs are openly sold without restriction. As Matt says nobody protests about such things there. At least here are still people in SA who are concerned about morality.
NuttyZA - 2011-05-11 11:41
Mulciber... "Atheists are thriving there?" lol, you make that sound as if it is the end of the world... you know, that if you wanted to find the highest percentage of atheists in a particular occupation, you would be best looking at people who are Doctors, Lawyers, Proffesors, Computer Programmers, Biologists etc... And yes, I think it is best that drugs are openly sold rather than behind closed doors illegally as it gives the Government some sort of control and also allows for the prevention of infectious disease thru dirty needle use. I have been to Holland... I am originally from the UK, so Holland is just a little hop across the pond.
BUT the thing I find most ironic is the fact, that the most conservative section of SA society tends to come from the afrikaans community (I am not saying all afrikaans people are verkramp) and one of the most liberal societies in the world is Holland, from whom most afrikaaners descended!
Ateis - 2011-05-11 11:49
"The country is in advanced stages of moral decay and atheists are thriving there."
LMAO- so moral decay = atheism?
And what about your bronze age myth is so good - please tell me if you base your morals on that piece of filth called the bible?
Funny that the scandanavian countries - who are SECULAR - are thriving countries with low crime rates?
I assume you have some study to bring to our attention that connects moral decay with atheism?
Mulciber - 2011-05-11 12:28
I should elaborate a bit on Atheists. I do not link Atheists with immorality. I also did not notice them thriving there when I was visiting. My parents told me that, because they are working in the ministry.
However, Holland changed considerably since the time they first set foot in SA. At that time, they were just as conservative as the Afrikaner ancestors. As an Afrikaner, I still regard Holland as a part of my heritage. I am just a bit concerned about them. :)
I respect Atheists and know many of them are professional people.
I also think the Church did some unwise or even cruel things that I do not agree with. Placing people under censure, stoning them, beating them and burning them are so ungodly. Jesus did not do that neither did he instruct that.
NuttyZA - 2011-05-11 12:51
Mulciber, look, you actually seem like a very nice person from the interactions I have had with you, so I am not going to tear into the last comment you made (because I could) and would just like to say, don't believe everything you are told (even if it is someone you see as an authority figure). Don't believe everything you read either. Do a little bit of research about your religion and don't just follow it blindly... read up about other religions (and I don't mean just the Abrahamic religions either). Think about all the other religions that have come and gone in the past and how you now think them wrong. Knowledge is power and only with knowledge are you able to make the correct decisions in life
Ateis - 2011-05-11 13:19
"stoning them, beating them and burning them are so ungodly. Jesus did not do that neither did he instruct that"
So you believe that the old testament is not valid anymore? Hmmmm.
"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." Luke 16:17 NAB
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." Matthew 5:17 NAB
I would be very interested in why you think you're justified (or any christian for that matter) to decide what we can't and can watch?
NuttyZA - 2011-05-11 13:27
to be fare Ateis, mulciber did state above "All you non-believers have the right to be upset if some Christians try to impose their views upon you"... He/She does seem to contradict him/herself a lot tho
Ateis - 2011-05-11 13:36
Agreed - and that is my whole point. By trying to censor this show christians are imposing their view of what is moral and what is not on everyone else
Mulciber - 2011-05-11 13:53
The Old Testament is still valid. In the verse you quoted, Jesus said he has come to fulfill it. I hope you understand what that means. We have to see the full context (Old and New Testaments). We can't just follow one and neglect the other.
I believe that Christians are by no means justified to decide what you can watch and what you can't, but Christians are entitled to our opinion on the matter. However, even if we disapprove, enforcing it on you is wrong in my opinion. My solution is, like many others', those who disapprove of it, don't watch it. The rest are free to watch it.
NuttyZA - 2011-05-11 13:54
Ateis, I agree... that is what I have been arguing all along (for the past 2 days on different articles about this)... I really think it's about time that atheists in this country stand up and be counted and actually do something to counter these extremist Christians. The problem with us atheists is that we generally are far too complacent i.e. we moan and complain on these forums but when it comes to it, we think to ourselves, oh well, what real harm does it do anyway and just tend to drop it... think we should start an organisation which stands up to the likes of people like Errol Naidoo. I for one, would like to get the teaching of any religious dogma banned from all government schools.
NuttyZA - 2011-05-11 14:00
Mulciber, have you actually read the Old Testement? If you have, then you would understand what Ateis is saying about stoning, beating and burning people is valid. The old testement is a violent hatefilled book, full or murder, genocide and a hateful, vengeful god!
Ateis - 2011-05-11 14:04
"The Old Testament is still valid. In the verse you quoted, Jesus said he has come to fulfill it. I hope you understand what that means. We have to see the full context (Old and New Testaments). We can't just follow one and neglect the other."
OK - let's see:
"Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death." Exodus 21:15 NAB
"If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness." Proverbs 20:20 NAB
"All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense." Leviticus 20:9 NLT
That is in the old testament. And like I said - the bible is NOT a good source of morals.
"My solution is, like many others', those who disapprove of it, don't watch it. The rest are free to watch it."
Agreed - but in the same breath - you support the xtians who want this banned/censored?
Mulciber - 2011-05-11 14:36
I never said I supported the actual ban. I mainly support the opinions, but not those about rape.
I agree that the Old Testament contains violent verses and it sometimes give a violent image to God. However, God had to judge sin because God is righteous, just as He is merciful. Being righteous is part of God's character. The violent nature of dealing with sin changed after the Crucifixion though.
The verses about "father and mother" you quoted, actually relate to one of the Ten Commandments.
Ateis - 2011-05-11 14:57
So then will you kill a disobedient child? Or a man who works on the sabbath
It's a separate debate but:
1. god created everything
2. god is all powerful
3. god knows everything that will happen
4. everything that will happen is god's will
So some ppl were born to burn in hell?
Mulciber - 2011-05-11 15:33
No, only God has the right to kill/judge/condemn, but remember, He is still righteous, He won't just do it randomly or because He feels like it.
Working on the Sabbath is a difficult topic, because these days some people have a lot of work responsibilities. We should still honour it though and try our best to avoid circumstances in which we blatantly dishonour it.
I believe nobody is just born to go to hell, every human being in the world is born with free choice or will. We are prone to commit sin though.
Ateis - 2011-05-11 15:35
But your bible clearly instructs you to kill disobedient children? And this is your source of morals?
"believe nobody is just born to go to hell, every human being in the world is born with free choice or will"
How can your will be free if the choice that you make is known to god before your birth and the choice is his will?
Mulciber - 2011-05-11 16:22
About the killing of disobedient children, there are some long but good explanations to be found on the internet, so google it. It relates to disobedience to God rather than disobedience of children to their parents.
"How can your will be free if the choice that you make is known to god before your birth and the choice is his will?"
The choice is not His will, the choice is still yours. :)