Radio pastor under fire for gay remarks

2012-01-13 10:29
Neels Jackson
Potchefstroom – A furore has broken out online over well-known radio pastor Riekert Botha's opinion on homosexuality.

Botha, a pastor from the Vredendal Baptist Church, hosts Pleisters vir die Siel (Bandages for the soul) on RSG on Sunday mornings.

He wrote on the "Pleisters vir die siel – Riekert Botha" Facebook page that homosexuality is "out" with God even though it's "in" with the rest of the world.

The parent of a gay child brought the entry to the attention of Jean Oosthuizen, a journalist for the Kerkbode - a church newsletter.

Oosthuizen's writing on the subject in the newsletter and on Facebook lead to fierce debate where RSG was asked to end Botha's contributions.

Botha maintains that he "unequivocally" believes in the bible which he views as the word of God.

He takes no issue with the fact that some may view him as a fundamentalist.


RSG station manager Magdaleen Kruger said that although she received a number of complaints via e-mail, it was no more than the amount the station normally receives.

RSG's approach implies that people's views on Facebook represent their own opinions as individuals.

There has however not been any reason for RSG to take action regarding Botha's contributions on the programme Pleisters vir die Siel and Brekfis met Derrich.

The station has however asked that Botha remove the reference to Pleisters vir die Siel and RSG from his personal Facebook page.

On Wednesday Botha "humbly apologised" to people he may have hurt on Facebook.

He also denied that he rejected gays with his remarks saying that: "If God does not reject gays, how can I?"

He did however maintain that "homosexuality is sin as it says in the scriptures".


  • Seducect - 2012-01-13 11:17

    And then the bible tells us to love our neighbour...Clearly Christians are hating me for being created by God....

      Selwyn - 2012-01-13 11:32

      Oh PLEASE get over yourself, he merely stated that it is "out" although "in" with the rest of the world and also states that God does not reject them so why should christians. And yes in the past it was spoken of homosexuals with hate. Of late it is "LOVE THE PERSON BUT HATE THE SIN" whatever it may be. Face it facts are facts and the word of God remains the same then and till the end of time. So all truth loving christian loves the sinner as God but does not approve of the sin. Stop feeling inferior!!!

      Juann Strauss - 2012-01-13 11:36

      Love the sinner, hate the sin. Is it really so hard for you to understnad that simple distinction?

      STYLEbudd - 2012-01-13 11:41

      I'm a Christian, I dont hate anyone... gay or str8 we are all created in His likeness and image. Its time the world stopped worrying about the outer man or his sexual orientation, and be more concerned with whats going on inside the heart. God wants to change our hearts, not our fingerprints!

      Dirk - 2012-01-13 11:54

      Truth and honesty is obviously not popular. Homosexuality was, is and always will be sin, and God is not going to change to accommodate sin. Grace yes, but that is not a license to continue in sin. God would never become an accomplice to sin. And dont twist and distort the Word- Love the sinner, but that does not mean that we should embrace the sin.

      Len - 2012-01-13 11:54

      Whatever happened to Judge Not, Lest ye be judged?

      Seducect - 2012-01-13 11:55

      @Selwin...go and read the old testament and all the laws...* DEUTERONOMY 22:13-21 If it is discovered that a bride is not a virgin, the Bible demands that she be executed by stoning immediately. * DEUTERONOMY 22:22 If a married person has sex with someone else's husband or wife, the Bible commands that both adulterers be stoned to death. * MARK 10:1-12 Divorce is strictly forbidden in both Testaments, as is remarriage of anyone who has been divorced. * LEVITICUS 18:19 The Bible forbids a married couple from having sexual intercourse during a woman's period. If they disobey, both shall be executed. * MARK 12:18-27 If a man dies childless, his widow is ordered by biblical law to have intercourse with each of his brothers in turn until she bears her deceased husband a male heir. * DEUTERONOMY 25:11-12 If a man gets into a fight with another man and his wife seeks to rescue her husband by grabbing the enemy's genitals, her hand shall be cut off and no pity shall be shown her

      Harris - 2012-01-13 12:23

      Hi Seducect. I see you only quote scriptires connvenient to you. Why don't to yoy quote 1 Kor 6:9. 9 "Of weet julle nie dat mense wat onreg doen, geen deel sal kry aan die koninkryk van God nie? Moenie julleself mislei nie: geen onsedelikes of afgodsdienaars of egbrekers of mense wat homoseksualiteit beoefen 10 of diewe of geldgieriges of dronkaards of kwaadpraters of bedrieërs sal deel kry aan die koninkryk van God nie"

      Seducect - 2012-01-13 13:36

      All of you so called Christians! Please in your own words explain to me all the ambiguous verses in the bible. I am not a God hater, I am a believer. But I cannot wrap my head around you so called christans who LOVE to throw stones at someone the moment you disagree. Again the bible states thos who are without sin, let them cast the first stone. I am not going to bother read your comments any further. God gave me peace in my heart, I hope you can find his grace & pease too. Shalom!

      liz.and.richard - 2012-01-13 14:48

      Shame, put away your pity for yourself and face a few facts. The bible is the Christians "book of rules" and homosexuality is a sin just like murder, lying, stealing and adultery. So why should homo's be allowed to promote their way of life while the others mentioned above are not? We are all sinners but the bible clearly states that one should not promote sin. Being proud that one is gay is sick, paedophiles, murderers and the rest should also have equal freedom if the bible is to be ignored. You were created by God as a male and not to be a homosexual, that was your choice.

      Len - 2012-01-13 15:05

      liz and richard. Since many people in this world are not Christian, I would presume that your prosthelysing does not apply to them, right?

      Dirk - 2012-01-13 19:49

      FRed- based on your comments here, please let me know if you find someone who would regard you as normal. I would like to correspond with him/her for research

      John - 2012-01-13 21:36

      "homosexuality is sin as it says in the scriptures". Right. Further, samesexuals do not do anything which a man and a woman can not do. Doubters can check the movie The Last Tango in Paris. Like everybody else, samesexuals have to repent of their sins, including their sexual immoralities. I do not recognize samesexuals has having any extra right to anything. I recognize marriage as a union between a man and a woman.

      John - 2012-01-13 21:41

      Hate the sin, Love the sinner - to repentance! Jesus died for all of us, while all of us were still sinners. It is interesting that the passage in the Bible in Romans which says that samesexuals will not go to Heaven, has 2 references to sexual immoralities, and 4 references to MONEY immorality, including thieves and " SWINDLERS "! The ANC Association of National Criminals will NOT go to Heaven!

      Len - 2012-01-14 13:07

      @John. No one said homosexuals demand more rights than anyone. Where did you get such an idea? All they want is for you to butt (pun intended) of their private affairs, as I expect you would not appreciate anyone interfering in your private life. It is clear you believe, but not all of us believe and we should therefore not be subject to your specific hate filled belief system, unless you you are willing to subject yourself to my morals and my belief system. Why can't you praise your god and enjoy the life that was intended for you, instead of poking your big nose where it does not belong? I am sure there are sins you regularly engage in, Why not manage those in the meantime?

  • ludlowdj - 2012-01-13 11:25

    And finally the truth is exposed, anyone with any knowledge of the bible will know that its stance on homosexuality between men is specific and leave no room for misinterpretation (woman are not mentioned) This also implies that christians in the main stream reject the bible as a source of "gods" decree and therefore will for the most be among the multitudes he spews from his mouth being neither hot nor cold. Any religious figure who tells you only some parts of the Bible are relevant and other are not is a false prophet and not a man of god, therein lays the difference between the word of God and the word of religion.

      Fred - 2012-01-13 11:44

      You attitude is correct - the problem is that the Old Testament will not go away. Either it is the word of some god or it is a fraud. The claim that the bible is entirely true and internally consistent is wrong. Here is one example: Jesus was born during the reign of Herod the Great according to Matthew. According to Luke, Jesus was born during the first census in Israel, while Quirinius was governor of Syria. How is that consistent when Herod died in 4BCE and Quirinius didn't become governor for another 10 years after that? No one has yet provided any convincing evidence that it is anything but a fraud based upon a variety of bronze age religions.

      Gary - 2012-01-13 11:57

      Fred There were two governers with the same name check it out.

      Dirk - 2012-01-13 12:03

      Stop twisting and tearing the Bible apart. If you are not happy with the OT, go and read about it in Romans 1-2.You are oblivious to reality. You fail to understand, and I could go into the reasons for that,that when a person is baptized by the Holy Spirit, all doubt goes. Petty little human arguments, will not change that person. When you have read up on homosexuality, research what a Christian is- not according to popular opinion, but according to Gods word.

      Martin - 2012-01-13 12:10

      @Fred Interesting read about Quirinius:

      Fred - 2012-01-13 12:20

      @Martino Jeez - your link, What a waste of time. A fundie bible site full of quotations from a book based upon bronze age religions and myths. Sorry. A review if the bible. After being told that this was a Good Book I was really looking forward to reading it. Alas, it lost me almost immediately. For example; After several “days” of light the sun suddenly appears in the sky on the fourth day? I looked for a footnote to explain this obvious inaccuracy but found that the story lacks any supporting references what-so-ever. I Looked back at older versions of the book hoping for some explanation and only became more confused when it became clear that the earlier text has both the sun and the moon somehow wedged between two layers of water! I also found many parts of the Old Testament downright insulting. For example, in the section called Leviticus we are told not to trip blind people or swear at deaf people! (Lev 19:14) Just who was this book written for that they needed to be told that it’s not cool to trip blind people!? And why is a woman “unclean” twice as long after giving birth to a female child than she is after giving birth to a male child? (Lev 20) I’m guessing a guy wrote this stuff! Continued ......

      Fred - 2012-01-13 12:20

      So I skimmed through the first section of the book, which was filled with endless rituals involving sacrifices and other barbaric practices, and moved on to the “New” testament, hoping for the best. What a disappointment! I found the main character, Jesus, was all over the map. One moment he was all forgiveness and the next he was telling people that they had to hate their families if they wanted to follow him. (Luke 14:26). In the chapter entitled Matthew, Jesus succeeds in removing demons from two locals only to cast them into the town’s herd of pigs who then race down a hill and drown themselves. The townies, who are naturally more than a little distressed at the loss of all of their pigs, ask Jesus to shove off and who can blame them! (Matthew 8:28-34) By the time I read the part about Jesus berating a fig tree for not having figs on it I’d had enough. (Matthew 21:18-19) To call this a Good book is truly a stretch. Don’t waste your time!

      Raymond - 2012-01-13 12:21

      Unfortunately, you are missinformed, please read: Romans 1:26-27(ESV) 26 For this reason wGod gave them up to xdishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. Women are mentioned here first.

      Kobus - 2012-01-13 12:25

      NEW TESTAMENT: 1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 1Co 6:11 And such were some of you. But you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. NOTE THE WORDS WERE! not are> WERE!!!!

      Gary - 2012-01-13 12:58

      So Fred by your own admission you have not read the Bible.

      Dirk - 2012-01-13 13:06

      As usual, when a fool is told to read the Bible, he would seize the opportunity to blaspheme and attack, showing clearly his ignorance and lack of knowledge, cheered on by others equally as foolish. But as they say- In the land of the blind---"

      Martin - 2012-01-13 13:19

      Oh Fred, what a waste of time debating with you.

      Fred - 2012-01-13 13:22

      @GLY Oh yes. I had a totally wasted childhood. They just avoided the nasty bits and the contradictions though. So now I get considerable satisfaction pointing these out to the guys who never recovered from childhood religious brainwashing. Atheism is an intelligence test. But don't worry, you may be able to do it eventually. Of course, if you are a professional (I make my money peddling god) then obviously you won't.

      Gary - 2012-01-13 13:46

      Fred. Once agin because you dont understand you claim Christianity is brain washing. Its amazing that millions of people over the years have been brainwashed. Tell me what do you believe? You claim that athiesisim is an intellegence test. This is highly debateable. How many of the scientific theories you believe in have you personally experienced?

      Fred - 2012-01-13 15:18

      @Gly When the facts aren’t on your side, you have no choice but to make appeals to authority, emotion, and special pleading when presenting your case; the encyclopaedia of logical fallacies suddenly becomes your best friend and play-book, and you will run through every last fallacy in it just to avoid offering anything tangible. Your appeal to popularity fails. So what about the billion+ Muslims 900 million Hindus 400 million Buddhists Lots of them believe in a different god than you - so who is right.

      Fred - 2012-01-13 15:24

      @Gly Aaaah! Science. There is a million miles of difference between accepting the word of the world’s foremost particle physicists, geologist, botanists, biologists, paleontologists, etc., when it comes to dealing with evidence, and taking as gospel (pun intended) the claims of a book, cobbled together by multiple authors (many of whom history has verified as having social or political agendas), translated, mistranslated, edited, interpreted, re-edited, translated again, misinterpreted, and dishonestly misrepresented when it comes to any of the claims that it has ever made. The bible has proven sweet Fanny Adams but its cheerleaders’ ability to perform the most extraordinary logical gymnastics in a desperate effort to spin the words of desert-dwelling ignorants so that allegory and fable could be falsely presented as scientific or historical fact. At the end of the day, if you’ve got evidence, bring it

      Dirk - 2012-01-13 15:31

      The fools despise wisdom and instruction(Prov1:17) The way of the fool is right in his own eyes---(Prov12:15) That is very evident

      Fred - 2012-01-13 15:48

      Ag Dirk Why would I be impressed by a quote from the BuyBull? Are you also here peddling god belief because that is what you depend upon for your daily bread?

      Herman Eloff - 2012-01-13 16:15

      Dirk (and others), I can't even be upset with you guys for reacting the way you do, I was there myself You happen to have been placed in a situation that taught you the specific flavour of the abrahamic faith that you currently tout. If you were born elsewhere I would have the same argument with you but you would throw different verses at us. Once you can truly (and it won't be easy) tell anyone why exactly you believe specifically what you do as opposed to any other religion, and then take whatever excuses you use to explain the other religions and apply it to yourself will you realise why we don't believe. For me the watershed started when I started reading the whole bible, and not just look for the verses that match my current situation. I prayed for the holy ghost to guide me and open my eyes, but the more I looked the more I realised the discord between reality and the bible. I do not expect you to take me serious, blind faith is just that. It is just a pity that you guys hamper your view on the world out there so much by relying on this obviously man made construction.

      Dirk - 2012-01-13 18:14

      Oh "Fred"- I dont believe that you exist- why should I listen to you. You are merely an irritation, a figment of your and my imagination

      Dirk - 2012-01-13 18:23

      Herman- My experience has been the exact opposite of yours. I was where you are now for more than 30 yrs and on 22 July 1999, out of desperation I called out to the Living God to save me because, until then, I had tried everything else, including the atheistic views you now hold. He heard my call an He baptised me in the Holy Spirit. When that happens, I assure you, you can never tun your back on Him. I thank Him for His mercy and grace because I did nothing to deserve it.

      Fred - 2012-01-13 19:35

      Jeez Dirk Every time you post you sound more and more crazy to normal people.

      Herman Eloff - 2012-01-13 20:21

      Dirk, you're obviously passionate about your belief and I am fully aware of the fact that you will not be easily convinced otherwise. Religious experiences create powerful emotions that can seem extremely real to those having it. Ive felt ''filled with the holy ghost' and felt gods presence with me as well. These types of experiences (and their effect on people) are of course common to all religions and is a fairly well studied subject. Your social circumstances obviously presented you with the conditions where you were susceptible to this and this provided relief and 'answers' that suited you. I can assure you, if you were living in a different country there would have been a good chance of you believing another god. And I must add that there is a big difference between no belief and deciding to become an atheist after considering all the evidence out there. It took overwhelming evidence before I even considered it, but if you look at evolution, the forming of the universe and the complete lack of supernatural evidence on earth then you would have to intellectually dishonest to continue with blind faith.

      Dirk - 2012-01-14 06:19

      Herman- I think we have gone through the evolution thing, the unproven theories, in recent times. And it was very clear that the theories on evolution, is no more than that. Another blogger, Bharath, put it so eloquently when he said: you(atheists) are science junkies- to unproven theories. Science is your religion.Atheism has hi-jacked science and worships it on the altar of blind arrogance" Dont base your beliefs on unproven, baseless and empty premises. Many are being deceived by it. I tried for a long time to prove God "in a test tube), and I am sure He laughed at me(Ps37)but I assure you that when He baptizes you in the Holy Spirit, there is no doubt. It may not satisfy the atheists, but it is very real. We all have a free choice, either to receive or to reject, and all of us, will give account for those choices.

  • Hein - 2012-01-13 11:26

    Mr Botha like so many of his ilk get away with far too much. If he is going to rely on the bible as his moral code he must take it warts and all. The bible says that homosexuality of an abomination and that gays should be stoned to death. God clearly hates gays. So if you are going to rely on the bible, there is no room for accepting gays. How on earth are you going to accept the very people you are committed to stoning to death? Of course Mr Botha does not want to have to concede that the bible is a most questionable source of moral rules, but he can't have it both ways. If he wants to accept gays, as any right thinking moral person should, then he must reject the immoral teachings of the bible.

      Fredster - 2012-01-13 11:36

      Hein I suggest you read the new testament as well. God does not approve of Homosexuality and neither should we. The diffs is that we should not condem those people but love them. This pastor should stick to what Gods word says and not conform to the patterns of this world

      STYLEbudd - 2012-01-13 11:38

      take some time to dig a little deeper into scrpture look at the cultural context there's a big misconception adn misunderstanding out there about same=sex attraction. God destroyed sodom and gormorah for example because they failed to help the poor and needy and were un hospitable towards strangers entering the town. The truth will set u free. Fact is there are loads of gay Christians around and they love and serve God and live pure lives. We are all created in God's image , both male and female.

      Martin - 2012-01-13 11:51

      STYLEbudd, male for female and female for male, not male for male and female for female.

      Hein - 2012-01-13 12:07

      Read the new testament? I did - Romans 1:26-27 (gays deserve death), Matthew 5:17 (Jesus makes clear that he did not come to abolish the old testament, but to fulfill it), Mark 4:10 (Jesus says that a child who curses his parents should be killed, according to the law of the old testament). Anyway, even if the new testament said that you should not stone gays as the old testament says, then it means that god's word was wrong. Laying down a moral law which is later deleted by your own son must be tough to swallow, especially if you are almighty, eternal and all knowing.

      Malcolm - 2012-01-13 12:09

      @Hein: God doesn't hate gays, in fact he loves them; but he hates their sinfulness.

  • martin.vandermerwe - 2012-01-13 11:31

    What Ever!!!!

  • Siso - 2012-01-13 11:34

    What can we say, they are God's creation and we must love and accept them the way they are. Who are w

      Elize - 2012-01-13 12:02

      You may be right in love and accept them all - but NOT all their actions it being agains the Word of God - if you are a Christian believer then surely you will also accept the Word of God

      Len - 2012-01-13 17:09

      @Elize. I presume all your actions are sinless?

  • errol.wagner - 2012-01-13 11:43

    How selective people are when it comes to freedom of speach or freedom of conviction - only what is politically incorrect is banned but what is politicall correct, even though it goes against convictions of some, are fine - what double standards. Although I did not read this pastor's facebook - it is his conviction and the conviction of many others that the practice of homosexuality is sin - you can disagree if you wish but be tolerant enough to accept convictions different from yours. Our conviction as Christians does not mean that we beleive homosexual people are to discriminated against or rejected or hated. We reject any form of discrimination - on whatever basis, race, status or sexual orienation. Because you reject the life-style does not mean you reject homosexuals. Not all Chrisitans, who believe homosexuality is sin, agree with those who carry out hate campaigns against homosexuality. We stand where our Lord Jesus stood when by a bunch of self-righteous Pharisees brought woman caught in the act of adultery to him - they were testing him. What was his response: "He who is without sin, cast the first stone". You see our greatest problem is not this or that sin but the fact that we are all sinners needing forgiveness. It is clear from the story that Jesus treated this woman with dignity. Although he did not condemn her, he said to her "Go and sin no more". The incident is found in John 8.

      Fred - 2012-01-13 11:51

      I wish Christians would properly identify themselves as not all Christians are the same. Are you - A Hansie Cronje, Ray Mccauley new age Christian; A Benny Hinn faith healer fraud Christian; A Pope, who hates gays, condoms, birth control and reports of clergy child abuse, Christian; A Joseph Smith (I found the gold tablets) Christian; A Jehovah's Witless (Sorry no blood transfusions and you are not one of the 144000) Christian; A rapture ready (The world is going to end this year, again!), Christian. It helps to know where you are coming from.

      Celtis - 2012-01-13 12:11

      Well Fred, I guess full introductions are then in order. Would you please start?

      Dirk - 2012-01-13 12:28

      Try finding it in the Bible- it is very clear- Spiritual death at the cross, re-birth, baptism by the Holy Spirit, baring the fruit of His Spirit (in a nut shell- not my opinion, but Gods)Once again you distort, bend twist Gods word, I am sure, for mischievious reasons,to be cheered and encouraged by those equally ignorant.

  • Herman Eloff - 2012-01-13 11:43

    I still find it surprising these days that people consider the bible as the 'inerrant word of god'. If you do (as this pastor obviously does), then yes, you have to consider gays evil, oppress woman, condone slavery, believe in a genocidal, hatefull father god with a 'loving' son god (although they are supposed to be one?). Anyone trying to look for excuses is just trying to ignore parts of the bible to match modern morality. But it is when people realise that there is so many historical statements that can easily be disproved (global flood, tower of babel as origan of language, a 6 day creation to name a few of the multitudes in there!) then people will hopefully start considering the possibility that they do not need this bronze age book as moral compass. The rest of the world (look at Europe, Scandinavia especially) manages to get along just fine without religion.

      Len - 2012-01-13 12:59

      What fascinates me is that some are willing to follow one teaching, but not the other. I wonder is this preacher worries about cross-breading

      Gary - 2012-01-13 13:01

      There is much evidence for a world wide flood including fossisl on mountains. I guess that you have niot researched bith sides.

      Herman Eloff - 2012-01-13 13:21

      @Gly I have looked at both sides yes, as I spent a long time trying to correlate my (past) believe in the bible with te world out there. The mountain fossils is easy explained by plate uplift. For example, the Himilayas used to be at the bottom of a sea (the Tethys sea) that was pushed upwards when two land masses collided millions of years ago. Just google it. Also, a mass human and animal genocide 4000 years ago would show us a very different DNA spread than what we currently have. I find it amazing that people still believe in this, do yourself a favour and research this on scientific websites (the well known ones) and not on religious platforms.

      mbossenger - 2012-01-13 13:26

      GLY - oh dear, really? what evidence for a worldwide flood is there?

      illse.nieuwoudt - 2012-01-13 14:05

      Do they really get along fine Herman? Are the people in those countries really so much happier than in a country where God is acknowledged?. Or is there problems with children, disipline, marriages families and all the important things in life. Even money? Life has no meaning if you believe in nothing but yourselves. So life has no meaning without God.

      Marius - 2012-01-13 14:17

      Ilse, YOUR life might not mean anything without god. Higher levels of religiosity does NOT lead to better morals and a more functional society - there is studies to indicate exactly the opposite.

      Len - 2012-01-13 14:18

      @illse. Let us say it is a tie i.e. believing in god does not make one any happier or less happier. Problem with children, discipline, marriage, families and all the important things in life is not limited to non-religious countries. Africa is probably one of thee most religious and Christian regions in the world, and we experience the very same things you imply are reserved only for non-religious regions. For you, life may have no meaning, but how do you know how others find meaning in their life? Others engage in a hobby, others work very hard, earn money while others simply survive from day to day. Who is to say that this means nothing to them?

      Herman Eloff - 2012-01-13 15:27

      Ilse, it's a good question, because as a religious person it is very easy to believe that society will fall apart without fear of eternal hell. It is most definitely possible for a society to be safer, more happy etc without religion but the reasons would probably be more due to socio ecenomic reasons than lack of religion. I think lack of religion just removes the shackles of bronze age reasoning and let people decide what is right for them (such as, slavery is wrong, homosexuality is genetic). I spend a lot of time in Europe and was initially very surprised (when I was still a christian) that these people do good things only because they want to!! My sense of wonder in the natural world and our place in space have greatly increased since I realised there is no god out there, and by no means does it give you license to misbehave or mistreat other people

      Dirk - 2012-01-13 18:36

      I have said it many times and do so again. "Morals" without Gods word/ commandments, are merely a set of rules which will differ from one person to the next. Killing may be wrong for the one, but not the next, but what makes him wrong? Nothing, but opinion!Everything becomes relative- no absolute right or absolute wrong AND THEN of course, then there is no sin, no Saviour. And satan is rejoicing with you.

      Len - 2012-01-14 13:19

      Dirk: I have said it many times and do so again. Who are you? Why should why you say repeatedly matter to me? Dirk: "Morals" without Gods word/ commandments, are merely a set of rules which will differ from one person to the next. Morality has existed before religion, my dear sir. You cannot make unsubstantiated comments like these and expect to get away with it. Now, if that is what you based on research or evidence, feel free to elaborate. Dirk: Killing may be wrong for the one, but not the next, In what world do you exist where killing is not wrong? Any killing in any culture is wrong. It maybe justifiable in that it was due to self defense, but it is never right. It is an action one engage in when there is no alternative. Death is bad for the victims and those who depended or loved the victim. The idea that there is a culture where killing is acceptable exists only in your limited imagination. Dirk: but what makes him wrong? Nothing, but opinion! Every society has rules which enable them to co-exist. Even in the animal kingdom, there is order and morality, and perhaps they have heard the word of god? Dirk: Everything becomes relative- no absolute right or absolute wrong AND THEN of course, then there is no sin, no Saviour. And satan is rejoicing with you This is diabolical logic and seems to exist only in your imagination

  • Fred - 2012-01-13 11:45

    Aha - the usual hate-filled American Jesus believer. There is no difference between the current homophobes and the christian racist bigots who supported slavery 150 years ago and Apartheid more recently. Christian racists now wish to apply the same discrimination against homosexuals and other people who differ from them. The bigotry and cruelty is identical.

  • dawie.vanstaden1 - 2012-01-13 11:46

    I have to react: Riekert you do not have to fear people because you are preaching the Gospel... to Seducect: God made the women to be with a man it was not His will for you to like another man, this was your choice..and you are making the wrong call so take the blame on yourself

      Elize - 2012-01-13 11:59

      Amen and Amen!!

      Len - 2012-01-13 13:00

      So, if you do not believe in god, does this still apply?

      mbossenger - 2012-01-13 13:05

      Omniscience and free will don't go together very well....

  • Martin - 2012-01-13 11:46

    Hats off to you, Mr Botha, for your uncompromising stance.

      mbossenger - 2012-01-13 13:15

      "uncompromising" - I spotted the spelling mistake; it should read "uninformed"

      Nick - 2012-01-13 14:58

      @mbossenger .... I think your words 'spelling mistake' are incorrect .... go back and check the English language !

  • Gerrit - 2012-01-13 12:09

    @Seducect.The scripture you are referring to is the law of sin and death Jesus overcame for us and is thus irrelevant in this discussion.Romans 8:2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. What is relevant is that God does not change and sin remains sin.Yet He is grace and mercy and full of forgiveness.The evil of twisted human rights which is proclaimed as superior to the word of God is trying to enforce homosexuality as equal rights and not a sin.Yet we are not to judge for none is without sin but we all live by repentance the grace of God. New Living Translation (©2007)

      Marius - 2012-01-13 13:18

      ".The evil of twisted human rights which is proclaimed as superior to the word of God" Oh right, treating people with compassion and solidarity is always trumped by the immoral teachings of religion

      Len - 2012-01-13 13:20

      Matthew 5: 17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. Romans 3:31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

  • Sarel van Deventer - 2012-01-13 12:46

    al probleem wat ek het met gays is die feit dat hulle in die kerk wil trou. dis net so wel hulle se dat God het n fout gemaak maar hulle dien hom nogsteeds. Dit maak nie sin nie. Gan trou in die hof dan. As n pedofiel n kind molesteer dan wil ons he hy mut in die tronk gan vrot maar tog is dit bewys dat meeste van hulle n probleem het in die brein. Maar dis waar mens n streep trek, jy moet jou self in hou, jy hoef nie gay te wees nie. Jy kan dit voorkom as jy wil, ekt n vriend wat gay lyk, hy act gay, hy praat soos n gay, en hys fyngevoelig soos n gay, maar hy is nie gay nie. Hyt my bewys dat jy hoefie so te wees nie. Dis omdat almal dt al hoe meer aanvaar dat dit begin hand uit ruk

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-01-13 14:33

      All churches are evil, especially NG kerk and catholic

      Heiku - 2012-01-13 16:06

      Im not a christian but NG kerk is not evil. I went to a NG kerk for 12 years, they are good people.

      Dirk - 2012-01-13 16:14

      Dont walk, run for help

  • Peter - 2012-01-13 12:52

    God does not exist and religion's the biggest con ever, so why the fuss?

      Gary - 2012-01-13 13:29

      Peter, please explain how you came to the conclusion that God does not exist?

      mbossenger - 2012-01-13 13:36

      GLY - how did you come to the conclusion that the tooth fairy doesn't exist?

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-01-13 14:38

      There is no proof that he exists, therefore he doesn't. Simple as that.

      Peter - 2012-01-13 15:14

      @GLY: please explain to me how you came to the conclusion that your god is THE GOD and that you bible is THE ONE. Maybe because you were born into it and your parents told you that from a young age and because of the inherent need of humans to belong and associate. Had you been adopted at a very young age by a Muslim family you would now probably be a devout Muslim.

      Dirk - 2012-01-13 16:23

      The science groupies have gathered around the trough to indulge in unproven theories. You reject God because you dont like what He puts(or did put) in your consciences- it restricted your "style" Your solution?"get rid of God" I have news for you - You cannot get rid of Him. He is where He always has been. What is more, each one of you will bow before Him and confess with the very mouths that you blaspheme with, that Jesus is Lord.

      Len - 2012-01-13 17:34

      If that is the case, Dirk, why bother. Will wait until then. In the meantime, will have fun. Try it too. You will be surprised how fun life is when you stop pontificating.

      mbossenger - 2012-01-13 21:20

      Dirk - the most terrifying thing I can think of is spending eternity with you...

      Dirk - 2012-01-14 06:36

      If you continue with your present views, there is absolutely no chance of that happening. Strangely, when I held the views you now hold, there was nothing more irritating to me, than a person who would mention the name of Jesus to me. Even just His name cast light on my dark life. I could not even utter His name if it was not done with profanity.It was the "thing" that controlled me---

      Charl - 2012-01-14 09:34

      where on earth do you come from?????? who made you, who gave you life, you better wake up and see whats happening in your life.

      Len - 2012-01-14 13:42

      Dirk: If you continue with your present views, there is absolutely no chance of that happening. Strangely, when I held the views you now hold, there was nothing more irritating to me, than a person who would mention the name of Jesus to me. Even just His name cast light on my dark life. I could not even utter His name if it was not done with profanity.It was the "thing" that controlled me--- Odd you say that, Dirk. When I held your view, it was because I was uneducated, unwilling to discover new things. As soon as I opened my mind, did a lot of research, studied, I soon realised that holding to fables and legends was a childish thing. Like all childish things, they have their time @Charl My mother gave birth to me

  • bernard.cowley1 - 2012-01-13 13:42

    Sies Ds, en ons "aanvaar" dan almal as "Kinders"

  • bernard.cowley1 - 2012-01-13 13:45

    Agge Nee Ds - en wat gaan Tannie Poppie hiervan sé . . .

  • Carl - 2012-01-13 14:02

    is god gay too?

      Nick - 2012-01-13 15:12

      @wesley.bischoff ..... you are treading on very dangerous ground here .... you don't know what you're dealing with !!

      Dirk - 2012-01-13 19:03

      You are desperately sick

      mbossenger - 2012-01-13 21:28

      Jesus had only male friends and lived with his mother into his 30's - of course he was gay!

      Dirk - 2012-01-14 06:48

      We see not only a rejection of God/Jesus, but a satanically hate driven campaign against Him. In Ps 37:13, God says that He laughs at you. You are a fool and your day is coming. Each and everyone of you, will bow your knee before Jesus, and the very mouths you now use to spew filth, vulgarities and blasphemies, you will confess that He is Lord.If you do not do so before you die, it will be too late.

      Dirk - 2012-01-14 09:01

      And God says He laughs at you

      Len - 2012-01-14 13:47

      @Dirk. You missed the boat. Jesus has been here already and he left you behind. "Truly I say to you, 'this generation will not pass away' until all things take place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away." (NAS, Luke 21:32-33)

  • wesley.bischoff - 2012-01-13 14:45

    Being gay is the BEST!! Oh there is nothing better than the smell and touch of a man's body. What you bigot religious people don't understand is that gays are proud of who we are, and the more you hate us, the more we stick together and love each other. Too bad you guys can't take a cue from us and love everyone, regardless of who they are.

      Nick - 2012-01-13 15:16

      Oops !

      Irene - 2012-01-13 18:57

      If we weren't born this way and had a choice, I sure wouldn't 'choose' to be straight. They also seem to forget that every gay person is a product of a straight relationship.

      Dirk - 2012-01-13 19:13

      Your comments reflects your ignorance. Has even one here said that you are hated. Its what you do, which is an abomination. And pride is equally a sin. Like all of us, it needs to be nailed to the cross. A very brief study of the anatomy, should tell you that your lifestyle is warped

      Len - 2012-01-14 14:43

      @Dirk. Here is a concept. God invented homosexuality to control the rampant population growth in the world. As homosexuals are unlikely to have children, this would help reduce the population. Do you buy that?

  • Wessel - 2012-01-13 14:45

    There is only one thing that God expects of us and that is to LOVE. If all actions, thoughts and words come from that one law, then how can it be wrong in God's eyes? I am gay, my dad is a pastor and loves me, all of me. God loves me, all of me. I have no doubt about it. Let us stay strong in our thoughts and pray for people who struggle to accept gay people. I really do hate the fact that people make a distinction between the person and the 'sin'...It really makes an issue of something that is a non-issue. There is no difference, because being gay is NOT a sin...We can not put it in the same category. Pastor Botha, as much as you are praying for me, I'll be praying for you.

      Len - 2012-01-13 17:38

      Fear and hypocrisy is far more powerful than love. Note that the biggest gay bashers in the US have tended to be closeted homosexuals themselves.

      Dirk - 2012-01-13 19:18

      Wessel- Dont fool yourself- it is sin and several Scriptures confirm that. Your father is right in loving you, but I hope he does not love and condone your lifestyle. Lenand- I say again, you need to spend time on your knees

      Wessel - 2012-01-14 12:47

      Dirk, I would like to request if you'd like and go read those scriptures in CONTEXT and not as individual statements...NOTHING in the Bible exists alone and should not be interpreted as such. I think it is a sign of ignorance when people throw individual Bible verses around...

      Wessel - 2012-01-14 12:54

      And Dirk, please just inform me what 'LIFESTYLE' you are referring to, because it seems like you know so MUCH of my lifestyle?...And by the way, my dad knows all about my 'lifestyle' and like I said, he loves ALL of me. I, however, won't be able to comment on your 'lifestyle' because without knowing you in person, as an individual, I won't know what your 'lifestyle' entails...I'm very curious to know as to how you got to know me SO well?

      Len - 2012-01-14 14:45

      @Dirk. I think you need to spend time in a classroom, not on your knees

  • Wally - 2012-01-13 16:15

    Unfortunately and ironically those raising the issue of having "searched" for the truth will always come up empty handed and then proclaim that God does not exist. The Word of God is not ambiguous. Read and understand what is being said and why. The issue pertaining to homo-sexuality is not Old Testament. Read what Jesus tought; read Paul's teachings. These are New Testament. Christians are accused of being all sorts of things...strange to find that those who condemn and judge and ridicule are non-Christians for the most. As was the case with Voltaire, Marx, Lenin, Lennon...plz refrain from ridiculing and mocking God Himself, and from insulting Him. U may not want to follow Him for ur own desires r foremost, but u don't want 2 fall in the hands of the Almighty God in rath and fury. He is merciful, but also JUST AND RIGHTEOUS. Ppl prefer 2 forget that and just focus on the love and mercy - just makes its easy for u. It is my prayer that u wld rather seek God's face in prayer. 2 b a Christian u need 2 believe; if u don't u know the answer.

      peterjohnjnb - 2012-01-20 05:08

      Jesus never ONCE mentioned the word homosexual, NOT ONCE. but he did say in Luke 16:18 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery." I think we all know the punishment for adultery don't we?....

  • tilla.smit - 2012-01-13 16:32

    Time the world stop worrying about the outer of a person or his/her sexual orientation and rather be concerned about what is going inside the hearts.. Dont hate the sinner , hate the sin... omg! World wake up !

  • tilla.smit - 2012-01-13 16:36

    Time the world wakes up and stop looking at a persons sexual orientation and rather look deeper in the heart ... hate the sin not the sinner... God loves everyone and He died for everyone ....

      Len - 2012-01-13 17:45

      Fear sells. Making everyone live in fear sells even better.

      James - 2012-01-14 16:19

      Yes Tilla, God loves everyone and He died for everyone, but His cleansing Blood will only be applied to those who accepted His invitation (John 1:12) to accept Him as their Saviour. The Holy Spirit will open your eyes to see all the sins and abominations present in your life that you have to confess and to part with. If you do not mean to be honest with God, you will not receive His forgiveness. Speaking against homosexualism does not imply hating homosexuals; the danger in keeping quiet while homosexuals make their unfounded statements, already resulted in them having their sinfull lifestyle specially protected by laws all over the world threatening even your child at school today in the sense that their sinfull lifestyle is being taught to our children to be normal and acceptable.

  • Irene - 2012-01-13 18:50

    Who on earth listens to RSG anyway? All the homophobes are worried about is the homosexuality they can recognise in themselves. Absolute morons for thinking that gays have a choice. How pathetic and believing this proves all the more the absolute ignorance of the homophobes! If I had a choice, I'd rather be gay than straight - at least we don't fornicate the way the 'religious' straights do. Fools, the lot of you!

      Dirk - 2012-01-13 19:29

      Like any sin, people use the same arguments, to justify what they do, be it adultery, theft, fornication, idolotory,murder ect ect. The "argument" is no different.

      Len - 2012-01-14 14:47

      You forgot to mention, hypocrisy, Dirk. Is it because it applies to you, not to mention the range of others sins you commit daily?

  • christiaan.roos1 - 2012-01-13 19:32

    Riekert Botha is 'n pastoor omdat hy nie die intellektuele kapasiteit het om die volle teologie kursus kan slaag nie. Ken hy ooit sy Bybel soos 'n afgestudeerde Teoloog dit ken? Kruip terug agter die bos waaruit jy gekom het, Riekert!

      Dirk - 2012-01-13 20:18

      Christiaan- Jy kan vir 50 jaar teologie studeer en dan n teoloog wees, maar dit beteken NIE dat die persoon n Christen is nie. Daar moet n afsterwe wees by die kruis, wedergeboorte, doop in die Heilige Gees en dan moet die persoon die vrug he van vd Heilige Gees. Daar is baie teoloe en selfs in kerke Dominees of leraars is maar NIE Christene is nie. En dit is die probleem in die kerke. Gaan dink daaroor

      Dirk - 2012-01-13 20:28

      O ja, daar is pastore wat net so lank en selfs langer as ds studeer.Die term "pastoor" kom terloops uit die Bybel. Kan jy die woord "dominee" daar kry? Gaan kyk.(En ek kritiseer nie nou die ds nie) Word mens n krimineel as hy kriminologie studeer? Word ek n Christen as ek elke Sondag in die kerk is? Dan word ek seker n kar as ek in die garage slaap. En laastens- die duiwel ken die Bybel beter as enige teoloog- maak dit van hom n Christen? Beslis nie.

  • deidre.swanepoel - 2012-01-14 05:44

    good for you pastor for not being afraid to say what needs to be said.

  • marloncameron - 2012-01-14 08:12

    As a Christian I am ashamed at the comments of my "fellow" Christians. No human being ever has the right to judge another because ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. It is merely by his Grace (unmerited favor) that we can make any claims to righteousness. We do not own righteousness, it was bestowed upon us. So because we don't own it, we have no right to judge others against its standard. That right is only reserved for God. So instead of judging people - LOVE everyone and PRAY for everyone - especially yourself. Amen

      Dirk - 2012-01-14 09:08

      Your opinion and my opinion is not important. Find the answers in the Word. Speaking the truth as Matt 28 requires us to do, is NOT judgement.

      nspaynter - 2012-01-14 11:11

      Dirk I wish Christians would take your advice instead of relying on heretics. I question what people say against Scripture. In the story of Sodom the rape is the sin and not the attempted sodomy. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of their in-hospitality. (Ez 16, Mat 11:10-15) Nowhere in the Bible does it say that they were destroyed because of their homosexuality. There's also the presumption that all homosexuals have anal intercourse. Not true. I am homosexual and I am not interested in anal intercourse. Does that mean I am not homosexual? Anal intercourse is sometimes used in straight married couples. Is that also a sin? Men in prison often resort to anal intercourse, not because they are homosexual, but because they need sex and they do it my pretending the guy that they are sodomizing is a woman. I know of a prisoner who even went as far as getting his "partner" to use some scent so he could smell like a woman. In fact Lev 18:22 makes a lot of sense here. It's not condemning men sleeping with men, but men sleeping with men and pretending they are women!

      Len - 2012-01-14 14:48

      What is judgement, Dirk?

  • Julie - 2012-01-14 08:16

    I support the minister and salute him!!

  • Jacqueline - 2012-01-14 08:37

    Let you who is without sin cast the first stone. The rest of you shut the hell up and leave everyone in peace to live their lives as they please. If you have issues/problems with people who are homosexual, deal with them in your own way and time. If you are not a Christian, a public forum is no place to attack others for their beliefs/choices/ideals, nor is it a place to blatantly advertise/promote another person's agenda.

  • nspaynter - 2012-01-14 09:09

    Well, I am a Christian and I am homosexual. Jesus does not have a problem with my sexual orientation and that's what matters to me.

  • Buti - 2012-01-14 09:10

    Your are worse than coward Botha. God has condemend this nosense long time why now? No share for gay people in the bible even if we can try to justify.

  • Charl - 2012-01-14 09:23

    We will be slated more & more for standing up for righteousness in the last days.I full support Riekert Botha!Stand firm on the truth! But a thumbs down to the sabc! Playing into the world system! Lets pray for those people @ the sabc that make decisions.I repeat what has been said under the comments so much" hate the sin, love the sinner!

  • Charl - 2012-01-14 09:32

    Heiko, you on earth can you say such things about our Heavenly Father. "God was guy and black and His mother was a whore??????? You call yourself a Christian. I don't think so. Just think about this, if it wasn't for God, where would you be today. I will tell you, with Satan. So please, next time you want to say or comment on something about God, then do it with Dignity and Love.

      Dirk - 2012-01-14 12:08

      That is exactly what will happen.Their behaviour and uttrences are as described in Romans when God gave them over to their debased lusts. Their debased and depraved minds simply have no limits.They gather around the trough of blasphemy and obsenities, seeking encouragement and cheers from those equally as debased. If you read 2 Tim 3:1-4, you will see that their behaviour is to be expected

      Len - 2012-01-14 14:51

      Buy god created Satan, Charl. So, if it were not for got, there would not Satan

      Len - 2012-01-14 19:10

      Correction: But god created Satan, Charl. So, if it were not for god, there would not be a Satan

  • liz.and.richard - 2012-01-14 10:00

    To my Christian brothers, "Please stop this post as we are getting nowhere and as it says in 1Corinthians 15:33 Do not be misled: "Bad company corrupts good character." Without the Holy spirit in them they will never understand or want to understand. Galatians6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. So, to pursue this conversation is allowing these non Christians to further blaspheme, rather stop as you will not get them to open their eyes and see or open their ears that they hear, only the Holy Spirit can do that, we can only point out what is in scripture and then they have a choice to make.

      Dirk - 2012-01-14 12:11

      Amen to that and this concludes my participation here. They can continue patting each other on their shoulders of delusion and self deception

      Len - 2012-01-14 14:52

      @Dirk. You must know how that feels, seeing that you are experienced in delusions

      Gideon - 2012-01-16 14:38

      Thanks for your comment, I agree to the extent that we must tell the truth but it will serve no purpose to proceed with this arguments. The world is getting sicker and sicker and the truth (The truth is the Word according to John 17)is "fixed" or misintrepeted to suite the world.

  • Antmot - 2012-01-14 10:56

    Once again christians shows the world their self righteous fantasy delusions are all about love.... yeah right, keep up the good work

      nspaynter - 2012-01-14 15:12

      Some Christians can be a real pain. I am a Christian because I follow Christ. Jesus taught through love. And I follow His teachings.

  • nspaynter - 2012-01-14 11:01

    In the story of Sodom the rape is the sin and not the attempted sodomy. Sodom ans Gomorrah were destroyed because of their in-hospitality. There's also the presumption that all homosexuals have anal intercourse. Not true. I am homosexual and I am not interested in anal intercourse. Does that mean I am not homosexual? Anal intercourse is sometimes used in straight married couples. Is that also a sin? Men in prison often resort to anal intercourse, not because they are homosexual, but because they need sex and they do it my pretending the guy that they are sodomizing is a woman. I know of a prisoner who even went as far as getting his "partner" to use some scent so he could smell like a woman. In fact Lev 18:22 makes a lot of sense here. It's not condemning men sleeping with men, but men sleeping with men and pretending they are women!

  • Len - 2012-01-14 20:08

    Samuel 18:1-3 Now it came about when he had finished speaking to Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit to the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as himself. And Saul took him that day and did not let him return to his father's house. Then Jonathan made a covenant with David because he loved him as himself. 1 Samuel 20:16-17 So Jonathan made a covenant with the house of David, saying, "May the LORD require it at the hands of David's enemies." And Jonathan made David vow again because of his love for him, because he loved him as he loved his own life. 2 Samuel 1:25-26 “How have the mighty fallen in the midst of the battle! Jonathan is slain on your high places. I am distressed for you, my brother Jonathan; You have been very pleasant to me. Your love to me was more wonderful than the love of women.” 1 Samuel 20:41 When the lad was gone, David rose from the south side and fell on his face to the ground, and bowed three times. And they kissed each other and wept together, but David more. 1 Samuel 18:2-5 Then Jonathan made a covenant with David because he loved him as himself. And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was on him and gave it to David, with his armor, including his sword and his bow and his belt. So David went out wherever Saul sent him, and prospered; and Saul set him over the men of war. And it was pleasing in the sight of all the people and also in the sight of Saul's servants.

  • Gideon - 2012-01-15 12:10

    Die mense maak "fundamentalisties" asof dit 'n vloekwoord is, dit is nie. Inteendeel dis Bybels korrek om behoudend te wees en nie saam met die vernietegende stroom van valsheid en sonde te swem nie. Christene in die verlede het op die brandstapel gesterf omdat hulle by die beginsels van die Bybel gestaan het het nie bereid was om kompromie aan te gaan nie. Ek bid dat daar meer mense soos Riekert Botha sal opstaan en bly staan by dit wat die Woord van God ons leer - al kos dit wat!! Gideon du Plessis

      Eugene-Joshua Mouton - 2012-01-16 18:26

      As dit dan so 'bybels' is om 'behoudend' te wees waarom behou ons nie slawerny nie? 'Fundamentalisme' is geweldig selektief in wat dit behou of nie behou nie. God het nie 2000 jaar terug ophou praat nie! Hy/Sy praat vandag nog steeds en Sy is nie vasgevang in literalistiese fundamentalistiese denke nie!

  • ruimteseerower - 2012-01-16 08:29


  • Martin - 2012-01-16 09:08

    I feel the same way about xtians as i do about herpes

  • iiafrica - 2012-01-16 15:51

    my view is, We as christians should love all, and must reject sin in whichever form. And just like we need forgiveness from God regarding idolatry so gays also need forgiveness from their deeds. Homosexuality is forbidden in the scripture as also is idolatry and adultery and so on. And if you say you were born that way, then guest what, we were all born in sin in which we some day need to encounter the Cross and the Forgiveness in the Blood of Jesus. By saying gay is not acceptable DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE HATED... Love Life and Don't stop the production flow. There is a way OUT through the Cross!

      Eugene-Joshua Mouton - 2012-01-16 18:15

      Iiafrica, you have no idea what you are talking about! "Love the sinner, hate the sin'' is just another way of saying gay and lesbian people would never be able to live full and fulfilling lives as they are always ''living in sin''. Living in sin by whose standards? A Holy Book that was written thousands of years ago by fallible people? A book that contains errors and seems to condone immoral practices such a slavery? Your comment about not stopping the 'production flow' is laughable, is the oversupply in the production supply not the greatest cause of our problems today? No, the literal interpretation of the bible is not the solution! God did not stop speaking 2000 years ago and He or She loves and embraces all her children fully, including her gay and lesbian children!

      Eugene-Joshua Mouton - 2012-01-16 18:17

      Iiafrica, you have no idea what you are talking about! "Love the sinner, hate the sin'' is just another way of saying gay and lesbian people would never be able to live full and fulfilling lives as they are always ''living in sin''. Living in sin by whose standards? A Holy Book that was written thousands of years ago by fallible people? A book that contains errors and seems to condone immoral practices such a slavery? Your comment about not stopping the 'production flow' is laughable, is the oversupply in the production supply not the greatest cause of our problems today? No, the literal interpretation of the bible is not the solution! God did not stop speaking 2000 years ago and He or She loves and embraces all her children fully, including her gay and lesbian children!

      peterjohnjnb - 2012-01-20 05:17

      I don't need any forgiveness from your or any other make believe God thank you. I'm quite capable of loving and respecting my fellow man all by myself...born into daft. Of course, a new born baby is quite evil.

  • Eugene-Joshua Mouton - 2012-01-16 18:48

    ''I don't think fundamentalism has anything to do with Jesus Christ. They call themselves Christian, but if that's Christian count me out! Fundamentalism is built on fear and greed...'' - Matthew Fox.

      Gideon - 2012-01-16 19:53

      Luckely we can choose. Believe or don't believe. Easy. God did not create robots. If you do not believe the Bible, it's your choice. My choice is to believe and it's definately not a blind faith but a very well substantiated one, but still my choice.

  • Eugene-Joshua Mouton - 2012-01-16 21:47

    ''Fundamentalism stumbles at the consubstantial relation between the free continuous act of God's self-communication and the living content of what He communicates, especially when this is applied to divine revelation in and through the Holy Scriptures. It rejects the fact that revelation must be continually given and received in a living relation with God i.e., it substitutes a static for a dynamic view of revelation...The practical and the epistemological effect of a fundamentalism of this kind is to give an infallible Bible and a set of rigid evangelical beliefs primacy over God's self-revelation which is mediated to us through the Bible. This effect is only reinforced by the regular fundamentalist identification of biblical statements about the truth with the truth itself to which they refer...The living reality of God's self-revelation through Jesus Christ and in the Spirit is in point of fact made secondary to the Scriptures."- Thomas F. Torrance.

  • tamaryn.dean - 2012-01-17 08:11

    Love the sinner, hate the sin...there is a difference!

  • peterjohnjnb - 2012-01-20 04:56

    In her radio show, Dr Laura Schlesinger said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following response is an open letter to Dr. Laura, written by a U.S. man, and posted on the Internet. It's funny, as well as informative: Dear Dr. Laura: Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination ... End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them. 1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians? 2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

      peterjohnjnb - 2012-01-20 04:57

      . I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of Menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense. 4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? 5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it? 6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there "degrees" of abomination? 7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God, if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here? 8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die? 9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football, if I wear gloves?

      peterjohnjnb - 2012-01-20 04:57

      10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14). I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I'm confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging. Your adoring fan. James M. Kauffman, Ed.D. Professor Emeritus, Dept. of Curriculum, Instruction, and Special Education University of Virginia

  • peterjohnjnb - 2012-01-20 05:13

    Christianity is a dying religion, in Europe, parts of Africa, South America and the Far East....all I can say is THANK GOD!! (intended) could their ever be a more ignorant bunch of sods? Furthermore, we live in a secular state, so Christians - sorry but that means you are not allowed to impose your disgusting, vile teachings on decent folk. Why do Christians insist on thinking that just because THEY are Christian's the rest of us need to be bothered with what their antiquated, bloodthirsty and frankly irrelevant faith teaches? Go practice your belief amongst yourselves and spare the rest of us would you? I've nought but love in my heart for all mankind, one day soon, we will all realise we need neither God nor government, just our own will to effect change and our own hearts to see each other through. Hasten the day...

  • pastorjerome.nel - 2012-02-13 22:49

    This is a free country where opinions are free speech. It is the democratic right of everyone to express their opinion, including Christians. The only people who get immensely offended when citizens speak their minds are radical rightwing gay activists. The gay right has to get a life and realise that they're not the only ones who have the right of freedom of expression. The fact is, very few people agree with them, their lifestyle and frankly, people are getting tired of their rude lack of respect for anyone who disagrees with them. If the radical gay right demand the right to freedom of expression then accept're never going to shut the voice of those who disagree.So suck it up and live with it. If you give, then you'll just have to take.

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